45 per cent of engineers put off by charging and range concerns
37 per cent either considering or already driving an EV
In last week’s online poll The Engineer asked readers whether, given the clear technological advances being made, they would consider investing in an electric car?
With major manufacturers and governments around the world now championing the technology there’s a growing expectation that we are heading towards a tipping point in terms of adoption.
We wanted to find out where the technologically literate readers of The Engineer stand on the issue.
Are you a fully paid up member of the EV revolution? Do you own an electric car? Would you seriously consider buying one or do you have misgivings over the technology such as concerns over range or the availability of charging points?
It proved a particularly emotive question, attracting 1572 votes, and encouraging a lively debate on The Engineer’s website (which you can continue to take part in below the line).
Perhaps unsurprisingly, given the relatively low numbers of electric vehicles in circulation, the largest single response group, 45 per cent (701 respondents) still see range and charging infrastructure as a major barrier to adoption.
“Give it a 600+ mile range (like my diesel) and 5-10 minute recharge and it will be considered” wrote Dr Bob. “Price, Range, Charging Time, Charging Infrastructure: Too many negatives to interest me” added another Another Steve
Phil Ludbrook commented that the only EV that would be practical for him would be out of his price range. “I live in Somerset , but our office is in Norwich which I visit 4-6 times a year. Nothing I’ve seen will get me there in anything other than a very, very long day of many stops, apart from an ‘out of my budget’ Tesla.”
A further 295 respondents (19 per cent of the overall sample) were unconvinced by the claimed environmental benefits of electric vehicles, citing concerns over both the raw materials for the batteries and the generating source for the electricity used to charge the vehicles.
“There are not enough rare earth materials to supply current battery design plus the negative effects of mining damage and their transport is being ignored. Also of course is the problem of electricity supply which if everybody took to electric cars would be woefully inadequate” wrote Geoff Calvert
Some respondents argued that we’ve got carried away with electric vehicles and that we should be pursuing alternative low carbon propulsion technologies . “The alternative green technology of hydrogen seems to be getting a back seat in all this,” said Brian “when it offers many of the befits of electric-rechargeable cars and the ease and range of petrol/diesel cars.”
However, a high number of those commenting and voting were more positive about the technology. Over a quarter (28 per cent, or 442 of respondents) were confident that the technology is mature enough for everyday use, whilst nine per cent of our sample group already own or drive electric vehicles.
Alex T is one reader now considering investing in an electric car. “Our run around car is up for replacement and will be replaced by an EV. Sadly there are no useful EV cabrios yet, but I can’t wait to get hold of an EV.”
Brian already owns an electric car. “I have a second-hand, electric only, Nissan Leaf and I love it,” he said. “It’s perfect for my journey to work (40 miles round trip) and other short outings. That said, my family couldn’t manage without a larger, standard car, as it is quite impractical to use a small EV for long journeys or for towing etc.”
Ian Cash, meanwhile, is delighted with his electric Hyundai Kona: “I’ve now driven over 4000 miles (mostly longer journeys) and have always managed to charge for free at the destination, or when stopping for lunch”.
With the technology developing rapidly, charging infrastructure being deployed ever more widely, public attitudes shifting, and governments around the world incentivising uptake of the technology it’ll be interesting to see how the balance shifts when we revisit this poll topic next year.
When they become self charging they will be at the top of my list. Until then no.
As a 2nd car the current range is fine.
But my main car needs to do 500+ miles in a day occasionally, and I don’t intend to spend any of that in cafes waiting for my car to charge. For that I would need huge range, or charging in a handful of minutes, or a green fuel hybrid. I suspect that an onboard green-fueled generator to recharge will be the longer term solution that addresses the occasional high range that at least one car in my household is going to need.
My diesel car, chosen because we were told they were better for reducing CO2, will be replaced by a full battery electric car. Maybe a 2nd hand Tesla Model 3 when some become available or an ID.3. My sister has a Model ‘S’ and is very pleased with it, but she always was an early adopter.
Its actually avaialbility/ specification (i prefer estate cars), the price and questions over resale value more than range and charging that are putting me off
An electric car could do 98% of my journeys.
However I need a car that can do 100% of my journeys.
If I was a two car household I would strongly consider an electric car as one of my cars but as a single car household they don’t meet my needs and I struggle to see them ever doing so until the “refill” time is down to the 5 minutes for an IC engine. Possibly we need electric cars with the ability to add a small generator that can be run as the car drives for those occasional longer journeys?
I know someone in work who has an electric car and they missed a days work because the MCB in their garage tripped one night and the car didn’t charge and they couldn’t get into work the following day. Smarter systems are required to avoid concerns like this (and mischievous teenagers unplugging your car if you don’t charge in a locked garage, and lets face it garages these days rarely see a car, they store lawnmowers, bicycles and BBQs)
No.
Hybrids are great, but I’m not giving up the security and convenience of petrol.
Get the feeling that we are charging off in the wrong green direction with electric battery cars.
Pure electric cars using batteries have many drawbacks, not least is range and recycling issues – hybrid maybe a better and more practical use as an interim solution.
The alternative green technology of hydrogen seems to be getting a back seat in all this, when it offers many of the befits of electric-rechargeable cars and the ease and range of petrol/diesel cars.
The whole mad push to totally electric is misguided and being pushed through to appease the environmentalists. There are not enough rare earth materials (the clue is in the name!) to supply current battery design plus the negative effects of mining damage and there transport is being ignored. Also of course is the problem of electricity supply which if everybody took to electric cars would be woefully inadequate. A more sensible approach would have been to explore the hydrogen fuel cell approach and the infra structure would be easier to put in place. Once again a panic response rather than a considered one to satisfy the loudest lobby group.
I’ve only got on-street parking and can’t always get a space. Is there a charging solution proposed that would overcome this?
What power is used for heating and aircon ? The miles/unit do not take account of this. I know of one person who would like to have an electic car ,but they felt sick after a test drive
Absolutely yes. I won’t buy another internal combustion engine.
Our run around car is up for replacement and will be replaced by an EV. Sadly there are no useful EV cabrios yet, but I can’t wait to get hold of an EV. Grid electricity is expensive where I live, but it will be mostly charged on our own solar.
Our long distance holiday vehicle will last a few more years. Maybe in 5 to 8 years we replace it with an EV with a big battery.
Hybrids provide the best option. They can be configured to allow enough stored energy for town use so no emissions at the point of use. Then when out of the crowded town environment it switches over to ICE charging thus no stress on the grid. This option would provide the best environment for pedestrians and drivers.
I would certainly consider buying an electric car but currently own a caravan and at the last vehicle change was advised that hybrid or fully electric vehicles available at the time would not cope well with the towing weight and would have restricted range as an additional feature when towing. As time goes by this will no doubt improve, as will the availability of charging points at campsites.
Many years ago I recall articles in the engineering press hailing the advent of drastically improved battery technology that would bring electric vehicles into the mainstream. I am talking here about the early 1970s. For some reason, and conspiracy theorists would argue that patent rights were bought by oil companies to prevent it making the market, everything went quiet – until the realisation that our existence on this planet might be in jeodardy from greenhouse gas emissions.
I shall certainly look carefully at the situation when I next consider a change of vehicle but, for the moment, must accept the use of a conventionally fuelled car.
None of the above.
I haven’t seen one that I like with the room I need that I can afford. Similar to Eddy Hyde above.
When one does become available, I may consider it, but price and residual value is still an issue. When I can get >50 mpg from my petrol Mazda , why do I need one? Who wants a used car with a dying battery? Battery leasing is essential.
Electric cars are to cars what the CD was to music. Looked like a great idea at the time but was soon superseded by the download and many returned to vinyl anyhow as it is the most “real” experience. It’s like this ICE is vinyl, electric is CD and Hydrogen will be the download. Simple.
For commercialisation it may be attractive. This is far below the equivalence of the conventional engines. It has limited application convenient to a certain percentage of users. Imagine me driving the same electric car I buy today 50 years from now while I drive a 1964 model 3.4S Jaguar as a far better car than most of any new model cars with all available replacement parts and optional add-ons. Technology is far from being mature. Lithium batteries may need some time to be perfected perhaps with new chemicals and alloys and a revolutionary insight. In the meantime infrastructure offered may present reduced inconvenience . Flying cars in the future may create a new domain and a new concept.
In the poll I have marked yes I would buy an electric car, however I feel I should qualify that. We are a two car household and both of us have grown up with the independence of car ownership and would hate to be without it. Our plan for the future is to have an electric car for popping down the road or to the shopping centre and keeping it charged by solar panels, so it would, on a day to day basis, be free transport. The second car would most likely be an IC only or hybrid for use on longer journeys because at present there is not sufficient infrastructure to be able to relax about range and a “fill-up” en route would be a long process for someone like me who hates to waste time on long runs. If there was a vehicle on the market at a sensible price, that was a hybrid that could be both externally charged and charged itself when the going was easy, with perhaps a super economical engine that needed electric help when, say, overtaking then I would think about being a one car household.
My ICE, after 5 years of daily use and 80k miles, still has a range of 300 miles. Lithium battery charge drops with use, and replacing the battery in an EV is very expensive.
Also, is there enough lithium in the planet to make enough batteries for every car to be EV?
I propose a hybrid design with an APU. Also, Sodium ion batteries are the future not lithium.
Sodium is far more abundant (practically unlimited) and cheap. Imagine the effect of a sudden massive battery-driven demand for lithium on the lithium/kg price?
A sensible approach would be to investigate electrolytic batteries (flow batteries with a liquid charge carrier) as a replacement for solid state batteries in cars. Spent electrolytes could be replenished in the same way as petrol/diesel.
Flow batteries would be ideal if they had higher power densities.
Given that most currently available vehicles are in the high-priced luxury range, given that range anxiety remains real, and given that all that electricity for charging has to be generated SOMEWHERE, I continue to see hybrids as a better option for now. Kinetic energy recovery combined with a super-efficient engine gives me over 70 mpg (UK) and over 600 mile range in my inexpensive Huyandai Ioniq. So, for now, that’s my solution.
I have a second-hand, electric only, Nissan Leaf and I love it. It’s perfect for my journey to work (40 miles round trip) and other short outings. I also have green electricity. I am infuriatingly smug.
That said, my family couldn’t manage without a larger, standard car, as it is quite impractical to use a small EV for long journeys or for towing etc. I’m not inclined to want to hang about for 30 minutes every c. 60 miles while the battery is recharged to 80% capacity. Then there’s the potential arena of competition for charging stations – imagine your fury if someone has parked their car for longer than needed to recharge it, while you wait to access the charger!
I’ve long thought that the end game will hydrogen fuel cells and fusion electricity. There’s a compelling case for hydrogen, except for the current poor efficiency and, of course, the infrastructure. I suspect the current battery powered cars are 21st century fax machines.
My major issue with battery cars is the range, I need occasionally 200 miles, and carrying an additional load of a 1200Kgs caravan, when electrics can do this I may consider using them.
Not until the range improves and the infrastructure to support it is in place and charging times are speeded up
Not until the infrastructure to support it is in place and charging times are speeded up
I would like to see some unbiased comparison figures on carbon footprint / environmental impact between fossil fuel & manufacturing rechargeable cells. As it stands I would lean towards self charging Hybrid due to the range & infrastructure issues.
Poor questionaire! i n my case there are a couple of issues1. there are 5 in my family, id need a car to fit everyone (read £££). 2. its not the range as such that puts me off…more what happens when I – or my wife for that matter – cock up? After all, i can’t just use a jerry can in the boot…. 3. Cost…with the best of intensions, i’m in no position to conider a relatvely young car….let alone a brand new premium one!
I’d buy one if I could afford it and as long as it gets me to the airport and back without damaging the environment.
I would not purchase an electric car. I live in the state of Ohio in the USA where the vast majority of power generation is by coal thermal plants. All I will do is trade one type of emissions for another. If I lived in an area with a lot of hydro-electric power (like British Columbia, Canada) then I would consider such a car for local day to day driving. For road trip vacations I would still rely on a gasoline powered vehicle due to range anxiety. Many rural areas do not have charging stations and I do not want to spend part of my vacation waiting for a battery to charge while plugged in to a 120V 15 A socket at some rural motel.
A quick BOFAP shows the economics are closer than I’d anticipated …
Nissan Leaf
Tax £0
Electricity 10,000 miles @ 15 MPP (Parkers) £667
Straight-line depreciation over 10 years “prices from” £2800
Insurance Group 21 £500 ???
TOTAL = £3967 pa
Nissan Micra IG71
Tax £165
Petrol 16,000 km @ 6L/100km x £1.25/L £1200
Straight-line depreciation over 10 years “prices from” £1288
Insurance Group 8 £300 ???
TOTAL = £2953 pa
Still a thousand pounds a year more, though. And having made the investment, with all those fixed costs there’s little incentive not to maximise its use given the low marginal cost per mile
I live in Somerset , but our office is in Norwich which I visit 4-6 times a year. Nothing I’ve seen will get me there in anything other than a very, very long day of many stops, apart from an ‘out of my budget’ Tesla. When the weight of these fat blubbery SUVs is very much lower they’ll go further on a charge; batteries are only half the problem. Marketing and not engineering seems to be leading the design.
E cars are heavier and more expensive than the equivalents, and take too long to recharge. This has remained the case for the last 100+ years, which is why they have not found a sustainable market beyond the milk-float. Also, the claim that they are ecofriendly elides the question of where that energy comes from. For politicians they are the bees knees, but for engineers they are expensive middle-class virtue-signalling devices (aka bullsh#t generators)
Anyway, just imagine running out of electric juice on a ‘smart’ motorway …
BTW why are the questions mutually exclusive?
I fully agree Brian. But I am also alarmed at the number of responses in this column that have an underlying message: “I won’t change because I can’t be bothered”.
I have a hybrid which I love. However as some one who worked in Electricity supply industry all my working life it is concerning that that it is assumed the low voltage and high voltage networks could support everyone charging their cars overnight. Someone needs to look into the hidden cost of supporting electric vehicles rather than ignoring them
Let car makers not give up entirely on the development of internal combustion engines as some people cannot afford electric cars or do not have a charger at home. Let conventional cars become smaller and greener and provide competition for the electric cars on offer.
As engineers we should be thinking forward to a brighter future insead thinking of reasons for not getting there! Of course there are problems with present electric vehicles but most of these can be overcome by a little change in how we do things? We are already getting left behind by other countries (eg Germany/Japan) in hydrogen vehicles/infrastructure – we should be leading the way not making excusses for living in the past!!
Price, Range, Charging Time, Charging Infrastructure: Too many negatives to interest me.
I’m also concerned by the environmental negatives: The batteries and where does the electricity needed actually come from.
The headlong rush towards EVs hasn’t really been thought through. It’s too easy for all the political parties and the technically challenged to set arbitrary and potentially unachievable milestones but the big questions aren’t being addressed. What about: infrastructure, baseline generation capacity, commercial vehicles, trains, ships, airplanes, the Military ?? It’s all hot air and politics until serious thought is given and real planning is done.
I would, but it doesn’t yet make financial sense. To buy a smaller (say i3) electric car to replace my 8 year old car (3 series) I would need to put in about £14k. I currently spend about £60 a month on fuel. My car is also the tow car, which would need to be overcome. My wife runs the ‘family car’ (5 series) and spends slightly more on fuel, but a Tesla is probably closest and that is significantly more money again.
A low capacity hybrid is on the maybe list, as I can do my commute on electric, and then rely on petrol for the range, and combined for a bit of performance, but again, once the prices drop down a bit…
I drive a petrol hybrid which is a good balance . Most of my local journeys are free but I can travel where I need on longer trips.
I am convinced that, of the current technologies, fuel cells are the answer for a hybrid.
The battery adds a lot of extra weight to the car as does having two motors. There is also a loss of space.
Against the all electric solution is the supply requirement. A typical large fuel station has 20 pumps and it takes five minutes to fill up to about 300 mile range, about 100kWh. If we assume that future batteries will be able to take such a charge in 25 minutes we need 100 charge points to match capacity.
If all are in use the peak power consumption is 100 cars at around 200 kW or 20MW supply – ouch.
How many petrol stations are there in the country? about 8000? A quick multiplication, assuming that the average is only 10 pumps still requires an infrastructure to supply 160GW.
Not all would work simultaneously, fortunately
I believe that the current UK generation capacity is 90GW.
The problems in getting a realistic plan for the future are:
1 Too many of the ‘think tanks’ are urban based and out of touch with rural and small town needs
2 They are not long term users of electric vehicles
3
We are a long way from having the infrastructure to support the mass use of EVs. It’s not just the issue of Charging Points, but where our electricity comes from and how it get to us. As Owen Williams correctly observes (above) our National Grid does not have the capacity.
Lithium batteries are not a viable solution for EVs, too rare, too expensive, and don’t last long enough before needing replacing. (Never mind range issues!)
We took a wrong turn over lean-burn petrol, and got conned by a well-known mining conglomerate over catalytic converters. Lets not make the same mistake again, and stop our politicians jumping at the first idea that comes to mind for that ‘quick fix’. We need to think through the problem of personal transportation holistically . It’s a genie that is not going back into the bottle, however much advocates of public transport wish it.
Whilst there are attractions to having an EV (in principle), the current offerings are ‘not there yet’, with the exception for those who can afford to run one as a ‘second car’ for shortish trips, don’t need to tow anything, or carry a ton of luggage, etc.
i think full electric vehicles are a so called quick fix but dont actually work very well! range & recharging times aren’t good enough & weather dependant rechargeables are never very good in cold weather & the cost is too much! also the second hand value would be low if the life of the battery is halved over 3-4 years & how can you recycle all those batteries or change them in a car easily!
a hybrid works better so you can use electric in towns for cleaner driving! & the distance you can go on just electric isn’t very far, it seems more like a tax dodge offering it than a real need to be cleaner!.
hydrogen would be the way forward for cars & trains cleaner & easier to fill a car at a station like you can currently!
with less electricity being produced how can everyone charge their cars without crashing the grid!
Using a reasonably fast home charger is like leaving the electric shower on overnight. How many households in the street can do this (at the same time – not with the diversity of people showering at different times) before blowing the fuse in the substation, or overloading the transformer?
How many roads, towns and cities can do this at the same time? Has anyone worked out how we’d generate so much electricity and distribute it? We’d have to renew the entire infrastructure. The result isn’t going to be green!
Absolutely – have a plugin hybrid and for most times its running on battery.
My only criticism would be that the petrol engine is way to large. Would be happy with a petrol engine that could cruise at 55 to 70MPH and use the weight saving for a few more batteries.
I’m delighted with my Hyundai Kona Electric. 64kWh liquid thermally managed battery gives 300 miles of real-world range, warranted for 8 years against degradation (as are ALL EVs these days). I’ve now driven over 4000 miles (mostly longer journeys) and have always managed to charge for free at the destination, or when stopping for lunch.
The EDF GoElectric tariff gives me 8p/unit (1kWh) for 10 hours/night (9pm-7am) and all weekend, and one unit gets me 4-5 miles – it takes me about 10s to plug in and walk away. I’ve spent a grand total of £5.90 outside the house at a fast charger (50 kW)… as a test – never needed it otherwise. Are EVs for everyone? Probably not; off-street parking is still an issue for many.
Are they good enough and getting better? Probably yes.
Toyota have done everyone a great disservice with their “Self Charging Hybrid” BS advertising – and yes, I’ve owned two Prius’s (first was 1998 grey-import), very good for their time but their time, but the future is BEV.
No, because I could not afford a new one, and who would buy a used one with the battery life issues, and the massive cost of battery replacement! Is there a s/h market in electric cars/ I doubt it!
Living here in Hobart, Tasmania, I would love to get a small electric run-around for 95% of the trips I make – say 50 km per day, commuting ,shopping etc. I have a Fiat 500 for this and would love to get a 500e. My 10 year old Mazda ute which I use for carting stuff around and the occasional longer trip is adequate for this. Trouble is, there are very few small electrical vehicles available here in Australia. I see that various evs are being sold overseas but not here. At the recent Federal election, the Coalition actually campaigned against introduction of electric vehicles. Sadly they were elected. The introduction of charging points goes on at a snail’s pace, a bit like Australia’s introduction of any realistic climate change mitigation.
Whilst it obvious that carbon fuels have to be phased out Im not convinced we know enough about the battery technology as yet. What materials are used, the carbon footprint and environmental issues in manufacturing and disposal of batteries. Too much is being prommised without any information on the, pardon the pun, negative issue of the technology.
There seems to be a ton of misunderstanding about the current state of EVs. I’m about to buy a Tesla- who have announced their new Supercharging V3, which charges the Model 3 at a rate of up to 1,000 miles per hour or what Tesla says can gain you as much as 75 miles of range in five minutes. Long range is just shy of 350 miles. I can’t ever imagine not wanting a break stop at least every 2-300 miles driving anyway. The batteries are guaranteed for 120,000 miles – that’s amazing. It’s an absolute no brainier and the economics alone win out. Slashed servicing costs (no engine to maintain), regenerative breaking means you hardly use your breaks and no road tax etc… do the math. Let’s not forget that amazing torque … model 3 performance does 0-60miles per hour in 3.2 seconds! Simply charge overnight just like your mobile and wake up in the morning with a “full tank of gas”.! The future is here now.
I dont see your service costs? nor the cost of carbon.
I’m absolutely amazed that any engineer would go with a less effective technology than more effective one. In a physical sense, electric vehicles are just extremely efficient and we should strive for that.
I did look at electric motorcycles earlier this year, but the substantial increase in price over a conventional petrol engine plus the unfamiliar brands put me off completely.
Well said Aaron.
I want one!
Give it a 600+ mile range (like my diesel) and 5-10 minute recharge and it will be considered
None of the above
No
Just two responses missing from the questionnaire. Do we sense a bias?
I simply cannot afford to buy an EV,it would certainly do for 99% of my needs but I also need a towing ability for my caravan which present EV can’t provide. I also have motorcycles,they all are capable of 150+ miles from a tank with 5 mins to refuel. There are several electric motorcycles with ranges of 70+ miles,I wouldn’t have been able to complete any of my most recent rides (all 200+ miles)without very lengthy recharges thus I’d be factoring in additional costs for overnight stays. I’m very interested in seeing the latest “Long Way Up” (Charley Boorman & Euan McGregor)are riding electric motorcycles from south to north America. When an hybrid motorcycle becomes available,I might be more interested in them but presently an EV motorcycle just leaves me cold.
Our family has a diesel car for longer journeys and an electric car for mostly around town. We charge at home 90% of the time and only use on-street charging if it fits in with plans. The electric car (30kWH Leaf) is simple, comfortable and cheap to run and the diesel is now only used for commute. We don’t intend to buy another ICE vehicle and will try to nurse the diesel along until we can afford a second electric with longer range – say 200 miles real world. Highly recommend electric.
Where is the building plan for the Severn & Wash barriers plus the fleet of new nuclear plants to power all these electric cars?
I do not want to download a new app for each charging point. I want to pay by contactless debit card.
How long will a 2nd hand electric car last. Will a 2nd hand owner be willing to pay £8000+ for a new battery at 8-10 years old?
Have we taken the wrong direction with pure electric & would be better off with petrol/electric hybrids?
Bobo: The mass market ICE has been refined over the last 140 odd years, that represents quite a lot of contribution from the engineering community and It’s something we understand and have confidence in and energy wise it is efficient. More effort could certainly improve what we already have; there is too much emphasis in the motor industry on speed and acceleration rather than efficiency.
Mass market EVs have only been around for the last five-ish years and they are still evolving and, in my opinion, are not a mature technology yet. Also, their environmental impact is not fully understood – just because something is ‘electric’ does not make it free or clean !
The other important fact for a lot of engineers is we are not paid particularly well and therefore have to make the best use of our available funds, EVs are just too expensive at this time.
Perhaps there should be an additional question aimed just at EV owners:
* As an EV owner, would you voluntarily buy an ICE-engine vehicle in the future?
Absolutely not, in my case!
Too many here repeating oft-discredited lies like “The batteries need replacing every 2-3 years”. If that were the case, why would manufacturers give 8-year warranties?
Engineers should evaluate the facts for themselves…
At the moment EV owners are benefiting from a subsidy funded ‘green bubble’. Will EVs still be quite so attractive when reality hits ?
From: “https://www.globalresearch.ca/35-billion-uk-faces-huge-loss-electric-vehicle-adoption/5691899”.
“If Great Britain keeps its commitment to switch over its vehicles to electric by 2050, the government will see a whopping loss of 28 billion pounds paid by motorists driving traditional gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles. … The think tank recommends implementing taxes on EVs soon, as car owners are becoming used to avoiding these duties on their fuel.”
Aaron, I agree with you to a point, and that is the charging infrastructure in the UK (outside of major cities and towns) is poor at best. I’d buy an electric car as rarely do I travel more than 100 miles in a day and a range of 300 miles would see me easily get to Devon for a weeks surfing. However, finding sufficient charging points once at my destination would be a problem. My other concern re infrastructure is power demand, there just isn’t sufficient power generated to supply a 20% change over to EVs let alone 80% by 2040.
Our current car is a Renault Zoe R110 40kWh it replaced a Diesel Fiesta Zetec-S that expired earlier this year after only 110k mile of use due to a failed cambelt, the recommended service interval was 120k mile. The Zoe is night and day much better than the Fiesta, more power and torque, equivalent handling, less tiring to drive on long journey’s. App driven remote heating via my mobile phone means no more scraping ice off the windows. Very cheap to run, currently paying 1.5p per mile. Total cost of ownership is equivalent to the Fiesta. The Fiesta cost £340 a month including Fuel, Zoe costs £355 a month including electric. The only downside is the slow charging speed of the Zoe (22 kWh) which means on journeys of over 150 miles I have to stop to charge, but its good to stop for a coffee and a break every 2 hours or so, but I rarely travel more than a 150 mile so I guess it suits my usage. Although I have driven 300 mile to Scotland in it and 300 Mile down to Eastbourne, its not something I would like to do on a regular basis. There is a new Zoe coming out in a couple of months with a bigger battery (52kWh) and faster charging (50kWh) so I will probably upgrade in a few years time and the car being electric won’t be a problem at all. I suppose I’m lucky that when we moved house a couple of years ago that I chose one with off street parking so I can charge at home. But because we got the car unexpectedly when the Fiesta expired we had to use public charging for 6-weeks while we waited for the home charger to be installed so it can be done as the infrastructure is better than the media would have you believe and it is improving all the time. The Renault Zoe is our only car so it forces you to use it rather than treating it as a 2nd car as a lot of other EV users do.
The reason I wouldn’t buy an electric car wasn’t on the list of options.
I don’t change my cars every 2 or 3 years, I keep them nearer to 10 years. The prospect of having to replace the battery within this timeframe at a cost of £2000 plus puts me off. It would make an older car worthless.
I just bought an electric car and reading these comments makes depressing reading. Most people are ill informed, as for the vast majority or people these cars work great, the vast majority of the time. Maintenance of these cars are virtually zero and the latest batteries will easily last the life of the car. And any inconvenience is a small price to pay when you consider there’s not going to be much of anything left in a couple of generations when green house gases ruin everything. Folks don’t appreciate the size of the approaching catastrophe. If you need a bigger car for a longer trip then rent one! If you have the resources and somewhere to plug one it, there’s no time to waste.
Well said!
To those EV owners who are happy with their EVs : –
It’s great that you are happy with your EV, I’m very happy for you. I can see the attractions. What I have trouble seeing is how the UK infrastructure will cope when all the rest of us want to charge our EVs too? Do you see HMG planning for a massive increase in the National Grid and Power Generation? On top of this where are all the rare earth materials going to come from? I still think EVs are great for a niche market, but not the mainstream. (Not enough choice of vehicle type yet either.) As many have commented, it’s still early days for EVs, and I’m sure a better choice of vehicle will come along at some point; but we are not there yet.
It’s a real waste of resources to keep discarding perfectly serviceable vehicles after a few years, we should be looking to produce vehicles with a 15 -20 year lifespan, and build them so that they are inexpensively serviceable (not just cheap to build). That will guarantee a viable second user market with respectable resale prices. Maybe then the price of a decent EV will be justifiable.
In the meantime, I still feel that a Hybrid Petrol/chargable EV would be the sensible choice, and if they ever become affordable I would get one.
Nothing green about hydrogen its mostly from natural gas and if it isn’t takes huge amounts of energy to produce. Storage is dangerous and in a car crash you wouldn’t have to worry about cremation or burial the ruptured high pressure tank will take care of it! You also have the issue of pumps freezing up in damp and cold, it really is a non starter and dead end
My partner and I have 2 hybrids and an electric truck the truck gets used most because it’s cheaper and cleaner to run
Reading these comments wow what a range of views! Some are informed some are a bit off…..how many people have actually used an EV before contribution to the comments?
Has anyone considered what additional taxes the government will now start dreaming up to put on electric cars once petrol and diesel cars start to decline in numbers. Revenue from fossil fuel to the government is circa £30 billion, ie 45% of total sales. Scotland is now installing car park charging points at DOUBLE the standard electrical cost PLUS a connection charge of £3 as soon as you plug in whether for a full charge or a quick top up. There reasoning being it still makes an electric car cheaper to run per mile, but only just. Until the public stand up to the government and say enough is enough there will not be enough take up to benefit the environment in any way and that’s in my opinion total madness when in this country more electricity is produced by renewable energy than almost anywhere else so why the continual price increases. Just one more example of RIP OFF BRITAIN.
Is this comment somewhat tongue in cheek?
Roger
“….there’s not going to be much of anything left in a couple of generations when green house gases ruin everything.”
Didn’t ruin everything when CO2 levels were c16,000ppm. The green plants and creatures with Calcium Carbonate shells loved it.
The main problem with all of these ideas is lack of an overall strategy. Charging needs to be done via induction under the road; no worries on distance or age of batteries. 2 Heating can be done via air passing over the electric motors, just like ICE system. Cooling a heating (if required) by Peltier device until motor has warmed up. Use two different size motors to power car (vehicle) and one can be used to generate power in cruise configuration. Braking using motor (no actual brakes needed) control. I have an idea for using ultrasonics for windscreen clearance (uses les power than wiper motor). There are more ideas I have to improve range and keep the weight down to reduce the cost. The motors could have a half gear change to improve torque which would be good for towing. These are just a few of the things that could be done to make a far cheaper vehicle than an ICE based vehicle. The problem at the moment is no one is designing from scratch to get the best technology to fit the bill. Every manufacture is saying use my drives to run the wheels; use my heaters to warm the interior; use my lights etc; you get the message! If done properly an electric car would cost far less than an ICE car!
This might be a stupid question ,but could solar panels be curved /fitted to train or car tops or would they be too low a capacity ? I know small solar panels are used for car battery charging.
Rather than use expensive battery storage for on-demand heating the EV car, storage heaters may be a better solution. 20 kg of bricks, specific heat capacity 1 kJ/kg°C heated by 200°C will store 4,000 kJ or 1.1 kW-h of heat. “Charge” the bricks with ohmic heating elements simultaneously with battery charging and release the heat, while driving, by blowing air over/through the bricks – essentially the same as a conventional ICE car heating system. Recirculating air, rather than taking in cold air from outside will further economise the use of the available heat
Most electric cars use a heatpump for heating, 1 kWh of electricity pumps 3kWh of heat into the car. If the car is still plugged in from overnight charging the car can be pre-conditioned to the required temperature by pulling electricity through the charging cable, preserving the charge in the battery to maximise range as once the car is up to temperature little electrical energy is required to maintain temperature. In colder climates some EV’s are also equipped with restive heaters for heating seats and steering wheels and even the battery pack. The wonders of 21st century engineered Electric Vehicles compared to the old 20th century Fossil Fuel vehicles they are replacing.
What happens when a motorway is blocked in the winter and cars are stranded over night. A choice of save battery and freeze or stay warm for a few hours. When the road finally opens you can’t pour a gallon of good stuff in the tank and away you go if you have run out of fuel keeping warm, you will need a fleet of breakdown lorries to tow all the stranded electric cars off to the nearest service station
I voted “I’m unconvinced by the claimed environmental benefits.” I would like to know the real reasons why some of those who bought EVs in the comments above did so. Was it to help reduce harm to the planet? Was it to help reduce inner-city pollution? Was it because the 0-60 time is much quicker than an ICE car? [BTW, did you see BBC Click do a side-by-side drag test of a Tesla with a hotted-up Lambo? No contest.] Or did they created a spreadsheet of through-life costs and decide that the EV would work out cheaper? If the first, then they have done so without understanding the true environmental impact of owning an EV. I am interested in an EV for the reasons of running costs and reducing inner-city pollution – in that order. I currently drive a “dirty” diesel (which averages a calculated 47 mpg – not bad for CO2 but poor on NOx, I will accept). However, I think now, right now, is the golden era for running an EV. As someone said above, the government is soon going to find ways of clawing back lost revenue from petrol/diesel tax. You may soon have to declare if you charge an EV at home and your electricity bill will be levied accordingly, and you won’t be able to fool the energy provider because with smart metering they will soon know if you are charging an EV overnight. In fact, you probably wouldn’t need to declare it. A simple algorithm could easily bill you accordingly. This is, of course, the right thing to do. We have to pay for all our services and the government has to get its money from somewhere. I think we can all agree the motorist will continue to be the easy target.
Hi Ian,
I work for the Victoria Derbyshire programme and would like to speak to you some more about your thoughts about electric cars. Feel free to email on susie.smith@bbc.co.uk .
If you’re unlucky to get caught in a snow storm in colder parts of the world the advice is to switch off the engine in a fossil fuel car otherwise you can asphyxiate yourself from the carbon monoxide. An Electric car would able to run its heater for a hour per kWh left in the battery, so if you had plenty of battery left depending on when you last charged you could keep warm for 5 – 10 hours before the battery ran out.
First be bold and pass legislation to eliminate fossil fuel but NOTE this legislation shall encompass all the present plant and workers involved. They shall be trained to convert to green proceses/EV as required and their wages
2nd pay the taxi driver an allowance to convert and a gted recharge point
3rd Enforce the legislation to take care of people like me (aged 85) who might declare a lack of interest (not me) and will not take action to protect your children ( I am)
4th. Take a leaf out of Hitler’s book (the only one) and build a basic EV vehicle that is one colour, one type of battery and is recyclable in relation to all its components. Put this into volume production and at a low economic price for those lower down the income pecking order.
Finally all the other routes to the required solution will transform into serious social disorder with consequences limited only by your imagination.
For Electric Vehicles to become anywhere near appealing to the mass market, the following needs to happen as a minimum: –
1. Prices for new vehicles need to come down
2. Vehicle range needs to increase to 300 miles minimum between charges
3. Charge times need to come down to 1 hour
4. Better infrastructure required for en route charging
5. National Grid capacity would need to increase for extra electricity draw
Electric cars shouldn’t have to copy ICE cars. People should be open minded enough to adapt their lifestyle slightly too to the technology. Some people have legitimate concerns but a lot are just stuck in their ways – even if those ways are detrimental to our health and are destroying our planet.
Hydrogen or whatever may be the best in the long run but we have to take action now, we cannot wait till the best solution is developed and currently electric is the best we have.
We have a Nissan Leaf which is charged mainly from solar panels on our house. We also have a 100% renewable tariff with our electricity provider. The batteries used are the same batteries used in laptops and phones but no one seems to have any problems with using them then!
Our range is about 150 miles which is far more than I normally do in one go. If I go longer than I normally stop for a break which is at least 30 mins which takes me to a full battery again. It is our only car and don’t feel a need for a second one. If I really did then I’d hire one for the small times we’d need it but don’t have the need.
It’s not perfect but it is a good start. And it won’t suit everyone’s needs right now – but will the majority if they’re open to something new.
A lot of utter ignorance on this thread, ignorance about technology and about the climate emergency we are in. The latter will not be solved based on what is convenient to some individuals. It will solved by thinking and acting systemically and with the current and future generations in mind, of humans and of all other species.
Fortunately there are lot of excellent, competent, informative, system oriented comments, always a pleasure to learn or have my knowledge confirmed by many of you, thank you. I include the perseverance of The Engineer on the topic of EV and sustainable technology, in general. Next poll should ask: would you use an EV? Because ownership is changing at the same time with the technology. Private car ownership is going away, which is a good thing.
While some are just chatting, and chatting too much non-sense, other are doing:
https://www.flotauto.com/bethune-bruay-alimente-son-parc-electrique-en-energie-renouvelable-20191021.html
Would I buy one? Yes
Will I buy one? No, not until the price comes down considerably. I am aware that running costs are a lot less, both in fuel and servicing, but in terms of overall cost I don’t believe it would be good value. I have only ever bought used vehicles (no newer than 6 years old) and I can’t see electric car second hand prices being competitive with equivalent ICE cars any time soon when purchase price and replacement battery costs are factored in.
I suspect if I did have one it would satisfy 90-95% of my journey needs, but I would not be able to rely on it as my only vehicle.